Friday, August 1, 2008

The Trouble with Being Earnest - Part 3

My response to Zack's post below, which was a response to Chip's post earlier in the week.

We are committed to building around Pau. If that was a lie, then why did the team sign Darko Milicic, aka the big man Pau had been requesting for years, and trade for Juan Carlos Navarro, Pau's best friend? The team attempted to build around Pau, albeit briefly, and the results were not pretty. They decided to ship Gasol out before he became a potential problem or lost any value.

We aren't trading Pau for cap space. It it true that Kwame Brown's expiring contract was the centerpiece of the trade that sent Pau to the Lakers. However, it also gave the Grizzlies 2 additional first round draft picks (one that became Darrell Arthur this summer), as well as the rights to Marc Gasol (who could be the starting center this year) and the services of Javaris Crittenton, who has shown a lot of potential. They didn't trade Pau for only cap space, as they could have if they had traded him to Miami for the expiring deals of Jason Williams and Ricky Davis. The deal was criticized by many, but so were the deals that saw Vince Carter and Baron Davis get traded. Their former teams are doing just fine now and so will the Grizzlies.

We need 50 games to properly evaluate the roster. The team had played 45 regular season games at the time of the trade. Of course, they had also played 8 preseason games prior to that, meaning that the front office and coaching staff actually had 53 games to evaluate the team.

A lie is something that is told when there is an intent to deceive. The front office probably believed all of those things when Wallace and Iavaroni were hired last summer. Circumstances changed their viewpoint, so rather than stubbornly sticking with what they said months before, they decided to try something different, something drastic. In any case, they didn't lie to the fans, because I've already pointed out that each of those things could be shown to be true. They did change their strategy though. And that is something that we should all be thankful for.

BallHype: hype it up!

12 comments:

Chip Crain said...

MemphisX - It is now your turn to respond to Josh's post responding to Zack's post that responded to mine.

Just teasing guys. ;^D

Joshua Coleman said...

Then we'll get CarlCR to create a graph showing that we're all actually wrong!

zack said...

I still think you are missing my point...

you can't take what Heisley/Wallace/Iavaroni say about future plans as complete truth...

they may not be lies, per se, but they aren't the truth either, if you know what I mean...

zack said...

I think this is the other theme being missed about my rebuttal below...

the parallels between what is going on now with spending money (or lack of spending money) and what went on with pau...

last year...heck last summer...

there was a part of the griznation that wanted to trade pau...they wanted him traded at the deadline by jerry...they wanted him traded at the draft by wallace....they wanted him traded in the summer...

and the other side would often counter with "it's absurd to keep talking about trading pau...the new regime just said they are going to build around him...they just signed Darko!!!!"

see the similarities?

the original being earnest thread essentially made the point that it was absurd to desire the team to spend money this summer b/c they said they weren't...

so last year, a bunch of us wanted pau traded....

but the management said they were going to build around him...and give a 50 game evaluation period...and if he is traded, it wouldn't be for cap space...

but then he was traded...and was traded for cap space...

were those lies? if not lies, then they re-evaluated and changed their mind...which they can do...

but the lesson learned from that experience is...

Just because the GM or Owner says something, it doesn't mean that's what they will do...

Which then, IMO, makes the argument of - we shouldn't be stating our desire to use some of that flexibility right now because they said they weren't - invalid.

Joshua Coleman said...

I don't think I know what you mean then. Just because they make a plan doesn't mean that they are bound to it for eternity. Things change, so they have to adapt on the fly. That's what makes this regime different from what we saw with the team under Jerry West.

I don't believe that they were lying when they said those things. I think that circumstances forced them to change their mind about their plan and alter their course.

Chip Crain said...

Which then, IMO, makes the argument of - we shouldn't be stating our desire to use some of that flexibility right now because they said they weren't - invalid.

Using your Gasol example, and I am glad to see you dropped the bit about not building around Gasol, situations changed that caused the change in their viewpoint. Gasol became more of a malcontent than a leader and the team was falling apart. Gasol forced the team to make a move and no one was willing to give the Grizzlies talent in return.

Has anything changed since the draft that would change the perspective on spending money in free agency? If you believe there has been then that would be a good arguement for saying that the previous statement from Heisley is no longer valid. I'd be the first to admit that this would be great news for the Grizzlies as well.

zack said...

I understand a plan can change and that is exactly one of my points...

Chips original post made the point that Heisley said X...and he is telling the truth, this is what they are going to do and you shouldn't get bent out of shape wanting them to do something else...

And I'm showing examples where plans change...

which I summed up with the thought that being earnest is only going to end with those words becoming not true...

If someone argues that they should have went after X or traded for Y...that shouldn't be affected by Heisley saying he wasn't going to do X or Y...

they said they weren't trading Pau for cap space and that is exactly what they did....

so much with being earnest

zack said...

"Has anything changed since the draft that would change the perspective on spending money in free agency? If you believe there has been then that would be a good arguement for saying that the previous statement from Heisley is no longer valid. I'd be the first to admit that this would be great news for the Grizzlies as well."

the fact that we ended up being the only one with cap space is something that changed...

also...

using Wallace's own words (since it seems that taking what they say at face value is suppose to be the assumption)....they are re-evaluating the situation on a daily basis b/c things change...

in the gasol example above, the malconent part came out more AFTER he was traded...

if Wallace ended up signing or trading for someone next week, he would then tell us what changed....I may not be able to pin point it now...

PMI said...

You lost all credibility with the Darko being the big man Pau has been requesting for years opening.

Anonymous said...

I'll be glad when training camp starts, so we can get back to talking about ACTUAL BASKETBALL.

L3E

zack said...

i just noticed a funny superposition...

in arguing that we did "commit" to building around pau, you called it "briefly"

I once committed to quit drinking...but only briefly....

hahahaha

i think anytime the commitment is only brief, it isn't much of a commitment...

but boy i'm glad it was brief....actually too long for me...came 8 months too late....

Anonymous said...

mane yall all some fat ass bitches with no muhhfuckin lives.